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I bought an original CT when they first came out and didn't like it so much shortly after I bought it. It started up with this digital distorted & thin sound, so I took it back. I then bought another a short while ago, (this time with version 1.3 software and the tube rattle fix) and it sounded much better to me, but still wasn't quite there for me.
I took that CT in and traded it in at my local GC for a Cyber Twin SE model. All's I can really say is WOW!! The tone is fatter, in my opinion, and does not have some of the spitty harshness the original had on many of the distorted amp models. I was really floored by the SE version. There wasn't a whole lot of information out there comparing the two, but the real believeing is a side by side comparison. Play an original CT, then scoot on down to the music store and play an SE. The difference will jump right out at you.
Plus there are plenty of new presets by guys like Greg Koch & Gary Hoey. One cool amp feature is called 'Squelch'. It creates an extremly realistic feedback/overtone type sound while holding a note. It really rocks!
One of the coolest things ever was going to the Greg Koch website, and ordering up a couple of his instructional DVD's (one was learn Skynyrd and the other was some of his stuff. He's playing the CT SE in this DVD's.), anyway, he tells you what to dial in to get the exact tones he's using on the DVD and it's just that, EXACT.
They kick butt!! I went through that with the Digitech GNX4 but was often dissapointed at the outcome.
Where the CT SE really delivered. I really feel Fender has finally gotten it right with the SE. I can not imagine how it could get much better with future generations of this amp!!
I also have a Podxt live I bought on the same day I bought my CT SE. Although the pod has some great sounds in it, I found when either I plugged in my Les Paul, Strat or a Tele, all the guitars essentially sounded like the same guitar! I don't even know how that is possible!
Especially a Tele compared to a Les Paul! When you plug into a Cyber Twin, your guitars retain thier unique sounds just like a real amp. Trading in my original Cyber Twin was a good call and well worth the price difference paid. I think the cyber twins are about to become history. Boy, i hope i'm wrong. The tube crowd has been incredibly vocal, anti ss, and anti digital to the point of frothing at the mouth.
In contrast, the cyber twin crowd has been way too silent. And then there's fender: they never really supported the cyber twin, never developed something like cyber commander, and i suspect, turf wars inside fender with the cyber twin crowd loosing. Unfortunately the cyber twins have a tough learning curve associated with them without the help of something like cyber commander. All this combined probably resulted in low sales and low interest by everyone. So it looks like we are going to get 50's technology. What a friggin tragedy, we finally get something incredible, everyone ignores it, and it's back to the dark ages.
Shame on all of us. Well, i for one will never go back to friggin tubes. I'll keep my cybers until they become relics, and maybe they'll even begin to really appreciate in value. Watch and see. And some young lad will ask why did this happen? Look in the mirror.
I recently bought a Super Champ XD, along with buying a Rivera Clubster which I'm waiting on now. I decided to pull my Cyber Twin out of the closet to get it ready for sale on craigslist, but before selling it I thought I'd give it another listen. Based on my experience with the SCXD, I took the approach of creating very basic patches - a tweed patch and a blackface patch - and playing them as a regular guitar amp without all the bells and whistles except for reverb (similar to the approach of the SCXD). I must say, I've been very impressed at how good of a job the Cyber Twin does as the basic tweed and blackface sounds!
It sure as hell sounds better than the SCXD! In the past, I think I expected too much from the amp, though I did like the basic sounds of the amp. Obviously all the factory presets are crap, but also the 'Amp Collection' emulating famous Fender amps is also pretty crap since most of them have the gain turned up way to high, and the tone controls often aren't optimimum. I think Fender did a crappy job of marketing this amp. They should have advertised this amp's primary feature as the ability to emulate well known Fender amps - forget about trying to emulate any other manufacturers' amps (though it's somewhat possible).
Also forget all the effects and high gain settings - make most of the presets basic Fender amps. Now I've decided to keep the amp. I bought it used (though in mint condition) for around $800 with a five year warranty, and the resale value is only around $500 now. Even if I just use the tweed and blackface sounds, it would be hard to find a comparable 2x12 amp for $500. And the Cyber Twin has so many other bells and whistles, which though might not frequently use, they are still available if I ever want to use them.
And when I received my Clubster, I'm curious to try plugin the Cyber Twin's preamp into the Clubster's power amp to see if the tube output makes much of a difference. One major difference between the modelers vs. The Cyber-Twin is that the CT doesn't digitally model other amplifiers; it reroutes the signal through different electronic components similar to the original amps it's imitating. Only the effects are digitally modeled. But I agree on your comments about modelers. I've owned many of the big ones, and though I liked the novelty of presets that imitated the guitar sound in a particular song, the presets generally did suck.
In the end, I've never liked them enough to keep them. The one exception so far is the Super Champ XD, but maybe I like it because it's so bare-bones unlike most modelers. I've heard great things about the Valetronix amps too though. Click to expand.Yeah, the CT is a handful of amp in most house-size rooms. Mine sounds nasty and spikey unless it's in a big room where you can open it up (like a big garage, minimum)-then it really shines, esp in a mix.
All that said, you can tailor your patches for low-output use around home and make it decently bedroom-pretty, but the best goods really live at stage volumes with a band at full blower. As for dialing in patches that simply make it an amp, that's a big secret to these things IMHO. (I have an entire collection of amp patches sans FX, all set to run just on the edge of clean-great amps, excellent pedal platforms. See RigTips link below.
Eye-opening.) There's a whole pile of really nice circuits living in there, and not just Fender flavor either. And yes, it's extremely sensitive to what you put in front of it-which is why it's so touch-sensitive.
Interesting take on Fender's marketing-I too think it misfired badly. The CT is an excellent stage amp, requiring some TLC to tame it for home use. IMHO the Cyber thing is a horribly misunderstood technology that the ad copy and manuals only further confuse with their obtuse approach to telling you how the amp works. But that's good.keeps 'em cheap for those of us who dug under the hood and found the good stuff. Has most of the stuff I've found online. FDP has two threads with most of the rest: The, and.
There are also some very nice new ones popping up on as well, with most of them being built around nicely-tweaked amp tones and minimal FX. Finally, I posted several on the Files page at the Yahoo group.
Just remember, with all patches, they'll need tweaking for each of your guitars-your axes, mixes, rooms, and ears will always be different than mine.Ray sykocybernetic. Which CT do you have? IMHO the original version (mine) just can't get to most high-wattage modern hi-gain turf.
It's can easily get you to JCM combo territory, and cover the Dual Rectifier combo pretty well, but neither of those was built around the types of multiple cascading gain stages you see in a Soldano or a 5150. The JCM and the DR were essentially the tail end of hot-rodded 60's and early 70's amps, such that the Cyber's limited gain stages can re-wire to that configuration, but the layered dual gain structures of the SLO are simply beyond it.
In addition, it's where the twin-combo personality reaches the limit-the CT simply doesn't have sufficiently heavy iron to keep up with a down-tune-style hi-gain amp in full blower, even if you patch the Cyber into a proper 4x12. Among other things, beyond 'output transformer' issues, (SS power amps don't have them) I suspect the cab sim technology starts to fight the amp at that point. In other words, a Cyber Twin 1.x simply isn't big iron, and won't sound like it. Incidentally, if you've ever tried using a metal-type distortion pedal in front of a Cyber Twin, it sounds remarkably like a distortion pedal in front of a Blackface Twin or a JCM combo.
(Depending on the internal configuration.) You just can't get around that 2x12 open-back box. Can't speak for the Cyber Twin Second Edition, however, as it has some additional options in the drive and cab sim menues. There are some SLO-type patches out there, but I've not personally heard or played one. They make great amps for certain vintages of rock 'n' roll, but modern hi-gain is where the analog circuitry runs out of tubes and iron. IMHO, YMMV, natch.
Interesting clip-I've been studying with a nu-metal guy lately, and these sorts of hi-gain tones intrigue me. IMHO, I'm hearing a fairly broad freq response for a guitar amp, with the low end being tight and focussed, and most of the grunt coming from the mids, not the lows.
Additionally, also IMHO, hi-gain dirt isn't as dirty as most people make it. In my book, the sound of this clip involves heavy intermodulation distortion from the tube harmonics, and gets less of its dirt from actual clipping. (As we think of clipping. Harmonics actually come from an early form of clipping most of us don't think of as 'dirt.' BTW, there's an underlying oscillation that reminds me a ton of a BF Princeton dimed.) Finally, despite the torn-up sound, there's a great deal of detail and enunciation of the percussive mutes, the norm for down-tuned metal. So, I started with a PAF-style vintage-(low/med)-output bridge HB on my JEM, knobs wide open.
I used the most harmonically rich circuit the CT has on tap, the Blackface 3 at high gain. This circuit still runs fairly clean even at those settings compared to a Hot Rod or an HMB, but the intermodulation is thick and idles low like a V8, and the pick harmonics jump at the touch of a pinch. To get those spanky mids you hear on the fills, I used a combination of the huge EQ power of a Modern tone stack (post), and the Razor Edge cab sim to make the amp move air right. To further enhance the illusion of heavy dirt without tearing up the pick definition, I used a favorite FX feature of the Cyber Twin, the 'Ultra Clean + Chorus.'
The Ultra Clean half really accents the pick attack (as opposed to cranking treble) and gives the amp a distinctly tube-y transient response on the front of the note. The Chorus half helps that V8 motor thing grunt, as well as providing a sense of harmonic combing effect (sort of a really slow trem that morphs freq response on the oscillations) to build in a dramatic impression of heavy drive. A touch of chorus, IMHO, is a big secret to getting clear and driven hi-gain tone while retaining definition and keeping the bees away. Too much and you sound 80's arena, not enough and the tubes don't sound pushed. The Ultra Clean + Chorus thing is tailor made for this.
Soooo.I came up with two patches. The first is tailored for live use, where making the air move in a dramatic way is crucial, and while the tone has to cut, it also needs some extra low to compensate for Fletcher Munson at a hundred feet.
(It also accounts for the freq-compensated XLR jack if you go to a board with the amp.) On the second, I was torn between using an HMB 3 section with the gain dialed back, or alternatively the Hot Rod 3, depending on where you want your mids accented for recording direct. My favorite solution was the original patch with an EQ pedal in front of the amp, however. Incidentally, I ran the combo without using an outboard 2x12. Mine is an old Jensen-loaded Univox and sounds considerably different from yours. Anyhoo, here's the patch: Tone Stack: Modern Tone Location: Post Drive Section: Blackface 3 Cab Sim: Razor Edge Polarity: Standard Compressor: Medium Noise Gate: High Threshold: 10 Gain: 8.5 Treble: 6 Mid: 8.7 Bass: 3.7 Presence: 9.0 Volume: Above 4 or 5 at least Master Volume: Same (The amp strangles below that, esp with hi-gain patches. Very loud.) FX: Ultra Clean + Chorus Output Level: 4.1 Rate:.48 Depth: 6.3 Body: 5.1 Brilliance: 6.4 (Bee buzz lives in these last two as well as in the tone stack.) One mo' thang.if you really truly want more dirt.stick a dirt pedal in front of the amp. The caveat is that it has to be a really organic and transparent pedal to provide just the touch of nasty dirt to push the sound over the top.
I used a Humphrey Audio modded Bad Monkey, or a Hump modded Metal Zone, and both provided some really clear and useful color to the sound. That said, I liked the amp naked the best. Does it 'nail' a Soldano?
Fender Cyber Twin Patch
But in a mix it seems to work pretty well in its own right. YMMV as always, keep us posted.Ray BTW, the dry flinty tone in the opening riffs.I tried reversing polarity on one speaker and bumping the EQ. Not exact, but dramatic. Assigned the polarity flip to a stompswitch on an FCB1010 MIDI controller.makes the change instantly. The clean really is overwhelming.
I played some of the reissue Fenders at a store (though not the PRRI yet) and did not know why I should change anything in my setup. Thanks a lot Ray, for these settings. I never tried to tweak the Ultra Clean + Chorus, and with your settings its still a bit too much of modulation for me, but the idea to use the Blackface 3 is really good!
Everytime I created a gain-patch I just chose one of the british or modern tube settings, but the blackface harmonics work perfect with my seven string! My Mesa Cab has V30 btw. Most people don't like them with Fender Cleans, but I really do. The Cab sounds so tight, it's perfect for practice, because you notice every mistake. Cheers, Florian.