Spreewerk produced a number of important weapons and. And opening a new factory in 1933 at Erfurt to. Spreewerk produced P.38 pistols were marked.
I just acquired a Spreewerke P.38, with 'cvq' code, no date. The serial number is 3975 n. According to LTC Joel Johnston, (Ret), US Army, who has a website giving values for various P.38 military variants, the 'cvq' was a 'Last ditch P.38 after 'cyq' die broke, assembled in Munich from parts.'
He also gives this variant a higher dollar value than the standard Walther and Mauser types. The gun I have is interesting in that it is all matching numbers, except for the barrel, where the original barrel serial number (which had suffix 'c') has been 'X'ed' out and the frame and slide numer hand stamped '39' to the left of the X'ed out number and '75' stamped to the right. These numbers are also about twice the size of the original stamped numbers. The original 'c' suffix on the barrel is not X'ed out. The gun is in excellent condition, although it does show the machining marks, common to Spreewerke. So, my question is: Is this one of the guns assembled in Munich from parts, thus explaining why the barrel has been replaced?
Or, is it simply a mis-matched Spreewerke gun, and therefore of lesser collector value than standard versions? Thanks, Howard. I don't claim to know all about the Spreewerke production (who does?) but the statement that Spreewerke parts were assembled in Munich and that the 'cvq' code indicates that is a new one on me. Several researchers indicate that Spreewerke parts were shipped to, and pistols assembled in, (what was) Czechoslovakia, but I have never heard of assembly in Munich, which had no significant arms factories. There has been a lot of speculation about the Spreewerke cyq code becoming cvq due to a broken die (actually a stamp, not a die). But that 'broken die' seems to have been retained for some time, far beyond the life of a single stamp. Either the code was changed or the error was allowed to continue for a long time, something I doubt the HWaA would have sanctioned even in the late war emergency.
There are some avenues of speculation, but I think I will avoid those for now and simply say that there have been many theories on the cyq/cvq issue, and AFAIK there has never been any definite resolution. The question of dated Spreewerke pistols is also still open. It was never Spreewerke practice to date its P.38 pistols, and undated ones are the norm. Dated pistols are seen from time to time, at random points in the serial range, and with varying number fonts. I strongly suspect they are fakes, created to sell a 'rare' pistol at a high price.
IMHO, the cvq marked pistols do not bring any significant increase in value over those with the cyq marking. The P.38 with the X'ed out numbers on them are not unusual at all. Alot of these has been faked as Jim here has said. The v and the y stamp is of little importance on these guns for the simple reason that there was so many produced.
It makes for a good story but the German Manufacturers most likely would have caught it if it was a simple broken die issue. As far as Munich I have no Idea. I have resurched and read and hunted till I couldn't stand it no more and I have never once come across anything relating Spreewerke to a Munich plant.
However late in the war there was a number of P.38's assembled outside of the factory but these pistols had a letter prefixed to the SN. There was only three codes on them too and that was an 'a' 'c' and an 'n'. I dont have a quote on the numbers of these produced but the 'a' code was the most common. Now these guns were made at Spreewerke and assembled in another location, there were quite of few of these assembled and in a hurry and several had mixed SN.
These were late war production of 1944 and 1945. Since this firearm is a Suffex 'n' SN this makes the gun just a standard run of the mill Spreewerke P.38. The X'ed out numbers is what makes collectors leary about them since there was so many faked. The good thing about this one is that the SN match even though there is a portion X'ed out. At least it is a parts matching pistol. So with all that being said that means this is not a high dollar P.38. But these guns are still a collector piece and are a nice addition to have and the value will only go up.
I have a Numbers Matching P.38 with an 'a' prefix. Trying to get the true value and info on it is why I researched the P.38's so extensively. If there is a book written or a reference out there chances are I have read it.
It took several years to weed out the good from the bad info. I have a cyq s/n all matching 5364J, regulated to primer popping on reclaimed cases only due to a 5.5mm long crack on the L/H slide where the cyq is stamped.Shame about that as the rest of the pistol is in good order.I am replying to your post as you say the Spreewerks had prefix a to n on the s/ns,and I was curiuos as to mine having a J preceeding the No.and as you spent so much time and effort on the research of these pistols I wondered if this was a diffent series or just a run of the mill continuation number. The only p.38's I am aware of that had the prefix letters before the numbers were the ones that were assembled outside of the Spreewerke plant.
Spreewerke Manufacture Dates
Yours having the j after the serial number is just a continuation of the main production. Most of Spreewerke's p.38's was assembled during manufacture.
Mauser P38 Serial Numbers
I am guessing to to pressure late in the war from both the Allies and the Russians is what forced some of the guns to be assembled at a different location. So in short it breaks down like this; Prefix letters (Letters before Numbers) were assembled at a location other than the factory. Suffex letters (Letters after Number) were assembled at plant. Also to clarify, the only prefix letters were 'a' 'c' and 'n'. 'a' being the most common.
Not 'a' through 'n'. And these were late war production ONLY. The serial numbering system used for military contracts for both the Luger and the P.38 started at 1 and went to 9999, then to 1a - 9999a, 1b to 9999b, and so on. And each manufacturer used his own series, and the numbers were reset to 1 each year.
That means that if the suffix letter is ignored, there will be a goodly number of, say, P.38's numbered 1234. If the suffix is included, there will still be several individual pistols numbered 1234a. That is why identification of an individual gun will require four pieces of information, aside from the type, Luger or P.38, namely the number, the suffix, the year and the maker.
So a full identification of a P.38 would be something like: German P.38 pistol, made by Walther (code ac), dated (19)41, serial number 1234a. There are exceptions, of course. Big Ugly cites one, and cyq pistols were not dated. And commercial pistols normally went to five digit numbers with no prefix or suffix letter. The Firearms Forum is on online community for all gun enthusiasts. Join us to discuss firearms of all kinds, gun accessories, legal issues and more.
Walther P38 Cyq Serial Numbers
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